Should I Stay or Go?

Chad (00:00)

how to know if it's time to stay in a marriage or if it's time to end it. In today's podcast, we are directly speaking to individuals and couples that are trying to navigate the idea of resentment, broken trust, unforgiveness, and wondering is the grass greener on the other side? Now, kind of a quick disclaimer, we're not talking about situations where there's abuse, where somebody's safety is in jeopardy.

in a situation where there's infidelity and one person has no interest in working on the marriage. We're talking about marriages where maybe trust has been broken, where we're struggling with resentment, we want to rebuild, both of us want to, we're just not sure how.

Sarah-Gayle (00:47)

the elephant in the room for a lot of these couples that we work with that are rebuilding trust, they are dealing with resentment is, should I leave? there's almost this fantasy of what it would be like to be on their own and start a new life really. And so this is where I think of...

they're thinking the grass is greener perhaps on the other side. And when we look at statistics, second marriages fail at a rate of 60 to 67%, whereas third marriages have an even higher failure rate of approximately 73%. So we see with every subsequent marriage, the likelihood of staying together diminishes. And again, just like with...

what Chad said, I really want to emphasize our take on marriage and staying in marriage is not at all cost, you know, for your life, your health in the sense of there's this manipulation, there's this toxicity, there's this overwhelming, just destructive environment. We're not talking about that, you know, and as far as if we're looking at biblical references, as far as, okay, what does the Bible say?

That is a conversation to have with your spiritual leaders, to read your word, yourself, and to discern and to determine. So I hope that whoever's listening that you hear me when we are not about toxic marriage and forcing people to stay in marriage. But I do want to shed light on the fact that when we are looking to exit one marriage, going into the next marriage will take some work.

Chad (02:15)

And so we are a big fan that the grass is greener where we water it. Exactly. And so there's this element of whether that's the marriage that you're in. We want to give you some context. How do you thrive within the context of relationships?

we've had the privilege of working with tons of couples who were at that space. Man, maybe be easier to start over. And they didn't have to. They were able to take some of the steps within the marriage, the relationship they were in and rebuild trust and manage and remove and reduce and even eliminate resentment and just rebuild a marriage that they're proud of, a marriage that they enjoy and a marriage

that is an example to the next generation and to their community. And so that is our vision. That is our goal. That is the context in which we kind of bring some of these ideas to you. And so as Sarah Gale said, shared, just changing the relationship, there's some limitations. And one of the first one is, if I end this marriage and I go to another one.

I show up in that other marriage. yourself with you. so whatever I was doing to contribute to the problems and to the hurt and to the broken trust in my current relationship, if I'm not doing work on myself, I'm going to do those same things in the next relationship. And so the reality is I need to do work on myself no matter what. And so why not do the work on myself in the relationship I'm already in?

Sarah-Gayle (03:40)

Yeah, that's what I say. I mean, we've been married over 20 years. Some days, you know, let's just be real. You might get on my nerves some days, but I'm like, hey, I've invested too much to this relationship where even the thought of starting over with another person, another person's dirty laundry, all of that. No, we're going to make this work and it's going to flourish

another reason that I think those stats come into play where these these second and third marriages are very difficult to grow and to maintain is We lose the aspect of newness in a relationship So you think different hormones that link us together that get us excited about a new relationship

Over a period of time, that starts to wane. then what we're left with is exactly what Chad was speaking on. We're left with ourself. We're left with the reality of this person who was also very imperfect.

Chad (04:33)

Yeah, and I think underneath that it's recognizing as people that we can over romanticize or oversimplify a fresh beginning. Yeah. And we can think, we just hit the reset button and everything will work out. The reality is each season carries its own challenges. Each relationship carries its own challenges. And so I was working with a couple where they were separated and they had been separated, but they weren't divorced and they wanted to work on the relationship again.

but in their separation, they had mutually had a conversation and agreed that it was okay to date other people. Well, they came back, we're doing counseling, and I had asked one of those questions that we asked, hey, are both people committed to working on this relationship? They said yes. And then after about three or four sessions, it came up that one of them was dating somebody else. And it wasn't a surprise to the spouse. this was, it was just a surprise to me. I guess I didn't ask a direct enough question.

to get the clear answer. ⁓ And the reason I bring that up is she was facing these challenges, the relationship...

that she was dating was only fun. It's dinners, it's concerts, it's little weekend getaways. It's all discretionary fun. And she's comparing that against being parents, responsibilities, bills. And so it's like, it's not even a apples to apples comparison, but it also was this.

like are both feet in, are both feet out. And so if we're not careful, we will compare the newness and only the dates of a new relationship against the day-to-day kind of grind of responsibilities of a marriage. And the reality is, if we move into that relationship, at some point that relationship ends up in the same day-to-day grind where you're sharing responsibilities, you're raising kids, it's not just.

dating or a vacation style relationship, right? That has some excitement but it lacks the depth of a real marriage and so it's an inaccurate representation. We'll think the grass is greener but it's not. It's just we're only looking at a very small portion of what makes up a long-lasting committed relationship.

Sarah-Gayle (06:52)

And so what do we do to protect ourselves if you will from this thought process of the grass is greener and kind of hardening our hearts to the process of growth and growing through those difficult times and we're gonna go through four different areas and the first area that I want to cover is Recognizing that we have an amazing Creative God-given brain. Yeah, it is brilliant. It is wonderful. We are fearfully and wonderfully made we have the mind of Christ

is what the Bible says. And so what I recommend is we use this amazing brain to come up with creative solutions for the marriage. If we're having a hard time in certain areas when it comes to the marriage, what can we do to impact that?

I liken this to a running competition where I tell the person who is going to compete, who's going to run that they are going to go one mile or five miles. And I tell them, hey, you know what? You can get off at one mile if you get tired. But the plan is let's go five miles. Let's see if we can do that. So if they're training for this race,

they might be confused as to how to train the intensity of what is necessary to run the five miles because deep down in the back of their mind, they're thinking, but if I get too tired, I can exit at one mile. And this is how it goes with marriage. When in our mind, we're thinking of creative solutions as far as how we can exit early. We're thinking of plan Bs. Then a lot of times when it gets hard, right? You're running that mile, you're like, whoa, I'm tired after one mile. It gets a little hard.

hey, I'm just going to exit because I have another plan that I can attend to. Whereas if I told this person you are running five miles, then if they want to run that five miles well, they will train rigorously and do whatever it takes so that they can run that five miles well. And that's the tenacity and the focus that we want to have in our marriages, that it's whatever it takes. And again, we already did our disclaimer. We're not talking about the abuse and things like that. But when we have our creative minds and we use it to

come up with solution, we are gonna find some things that we never would have even thought about. And this is where I believe Holy Spirit is giving us ideas because marriage is God's idea. What he has called us to, he has equipped us for. It's just a matter of what do we let overtake us?

Chad (09:12)

I think we're going to get different answers depending on the question that we're asking. And so we want to encourage you to ask a different question, right? If we've been married 20 plus years and so I can be asking the question of, hey, how do I justifiably get out of this? Yeah. Right. I can be asking, how do I make this the best marriage possible? Yeah. Right. What if my option is, hey, for the next 30 years, you can be happily married or you can be married and miserable. Yeah. It's like, well, OK, if it's married and miserable, if I'm going to be here anyway,

Why not be happy and married? Why not continue to plant and invest and prioritize this relationship so that we can both enjoy it as opposed to just suffer through it? And so the next thing is this idea of taking thoughts captive. And you can see how these potentially build and support each other. And so a lot of times when we start questioning or wondering ways to get out, our thoughts

are drifting. And so we want to take our thoughts captive. You scripture is filled with so many ⁓ principles, Old Testament, New Testament, where the power of our thoughts kind of shapes the direction that we're going. And so we want to take those thoughts captive and begin creating some realistic ⁓ goals or some realistic steps or some realistic thoughts that support what God has for us. You know, so much of what we're listening to shapes our thoughts.

And so if we've got friends or family that are pushing or encouraging separation or divorce, or you're better without them, like that's gonna get inside our head and we're gonna start wondering that more and more. one of the things I like to share with couples is pray for your spouse, not about your spouse. Right, if I'm like, man, God, you need to change Sarah Gale. She is difficult, difficult woman.

Right, like I am sowing the thoughts of her being difficult as opposed to praying for, God, I thank you so much for my wife, God, I thank you that I am blessed to have her in my life, right? It's just these thoughts that change my approach within the context of my marriage.

Sarah-Gayle (11:20)

Yes,

scripture talks about we demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ the Bible talks about this power of our thoughts and I think especially for women we can fantasize, you know, we can get lost in our romantic comedies and in things that

have unrealistic expectations and we start comparing and it becomes just a negative spiral for so many of us. And so it's really being diligent to take captive those thoughts. And when we talk about take captive, that's a military concept where it's like, are literally taking captive these thoughts that are opposing themselves against what God has for us. And even more powerfully, we are replacing them with what does God say about marriage? What does God say about our spouse, about our

And we are going to war with these thoughts. There is a book by Joyce Meyer School. Yeah old school and it's the battlefield of the mind and it is Amazing. So if you struggle with thoughts, I would recommend that book because it's a real Dynamic in our marriage and we already saw in Proverbs we can probably say in every podcast as a man or woman thinks So is he or she and so it's taking that inventory?

when it comes to our thought life.

Chad (12:42)

And so the next thing for us to consider when we're trying to debate, like, do we stay or do we go, is count the cost, right? Count the real cost of what does it take to actually invest and prioritize in this marriage? Oftentimes when we work with couples, like, they really haven't, right? It's coming in the kind of tiptoed, got busy, it drifted away. And so it becomes this false.

Perspective that rebuilding fresh will be easier. Yeah, and it's just not because it's gonna take work to rebuild We already talked about that. I take myself wherever I go The only difference is Sarah Gailen it we have two sons Right. So if I were to rebuild here

it has a generational impact. What is best for my sons is for them to witness my wife and I loving and caring deeply and prioritize our marriage. So much generationally is caught more than taught. And so sometimes when couples hit a difficult patch and then they persevere through it,

Man, I just am so excited the example that they have displayed for their kiddos. Because relationships are hard and different seasons of life are hard. And if our kids don't have access to mom and dad working through things, then they may think that relationships are easy and that they don't take work and prioritization and investment and grace and perseverance and faith and boldness and all of these different things that make a marriage thrive. And so we can

just kind of dismiss and highlight well the current environment our kids are experiencing is unhealthy. And maybe that's true but just up rooting them into a different environment doesn't mean that next environment is healthy. And so once again it's like not just looking at one side but really asking all of these things I would need to do in a new relationship can I still do them here? And especially if you're willing to and your spouse or your partner's willing to that is where we can make the grass greener with

without the ripple effect of kind of eroded relationships.

Sarah-Gayle (14:50)

Yeah, and of course this isn't meant to shame anyone who perhaps is on their second marriage who left their previous marriage like we mentioned before Sometimes that is your step That's what you need to do based off of what you sought counsel for and where you're at and one thing I want to add to that and you kind of touched on this is Counting the cost as far as what it looks like to leave but then also what it looks like to stay without getting help

There's different research that talks about couples who have kids who are interacting, engaging in a very toxic negative way, how that is detrimental and even worse for kids if the kids do stay in that environment. So the cost of staying in a toxic environment or in a very challenging, difficult one and not doing anything about it.

is also very big. So the cost of leaving and not doing something first to see, how can we remedy this? Are we watering? Are we doing the things that build relationships, that healthy relationships do? Are we doing those things? But also the cost to stay in a relationship and be indifferent and be cold and filled with resentment, right? And not being willing to build trust. That also is not what we are talking about. So we have to make choices and we have to be courageous and urgent to

out, okay, what is God's best? And God's best truly is connection and growing this relationship. So doing whatever is necessary to do that would be the goal.

Chad (16:21)

And so our fourth and final thing is remember the why.

You know, we believe that scripture paints a picture that the marriage is a covenant relationship. And the reality is any relationship is going to thrive when the individuals are connected to the source. And so our own individual faith, our own relationship with God is what is going to support us in joining our marriage and making it through the different seasons. I also think one of the biggest things when we are growing in our individual faith, one, I'm reminded of that covenant.

But I'm also reminded, well, who's the source of that? It's not my spouse, it's God. And so one of the biggest things that we can see couples get confused or struggle with is comparison. And so we all have our own access to God. And I believe that in different seasons, God will give us wisdom for the season of life that we are in. And so if we just make comparisons to what our neighbors did, to what our aunts or uncles did, to what our friends did, we may miss out on part of what God has for us. You mentioned this earlier.

for lots of different reasons, marriages have come to an end and somebody will find themselves in a new relationship or a new marriage. I don't want that person to be walking around with shame or guilt. I want them walking around taking ownership and wanting to honor God and honor their current or future partner or spouse to the best of their ability. So that's what we're talking about, but I think that that is supported when we remember this idea that marriage is a covenant.

commitment. Marriage is God's plan and God's idea.

Sarah-Gayle (17:59)

Yeah, it's good. And we want to reframe even how we see challenge and conflict in our marriage. We look at James and it talks about considerate pure joy when you face trials, so as we reframe that and recognize this isn't about just our happiness, this isn't about just us getting what we want, although I hope we get a lot of what we want and I hope we are happy. But the author, Gary Thomas,

puts it brilliantly. He says in his book, Sacred Marriage, says, if God designed marriage to make us holy more than to make us happy? Because God is good, right? Every good and perfect gift comes from him. I really know that we will be happy and even not as fleeting as happiness, joy-filled when it comes to abiding and being in Christ, but...

as far as holy becoming more Christ-like that is the design that is the aim and there's no relationship like marriage that

pulls the humanity, the flesh out of us and that requires our selflessness, requires us to consider the other above ourselves, to forgive, to not be easily offended. And so in essence, when we are married and we're going through hard times, we know that we're being sharpened, that we're being cut a little bit in a good way and becoming more like Christ. And if we can become more like Christ, bring it on because that's why we're here, to bring Him glory, to become more like Him.

Chad (19:27)

So to recap, a couple things. If you find yourself in a situation where you're wondering, should you stay or should you go? Remember, the grass isn't always greener. But here are some things that equip you in this season. And so the first one is ⁓ use your mind. Use the creativity of your brain to invest and prioritize the relationship that you're currently in. The second thing is take your thoughts captive.

Think about what are you ingesting, what are you listening to, what are you thinking about, and be intentional about those thoughts. That'll serve you in this relationship, but it'll serve you in every area of your life. Count the cost. Count the cost of staying, count the cost of getting help, count the cost of leaving. Have an accurate understanding of the cost and the opportunity of the decision that you're making. And then the fourth thing is remember your why.

Marriage is intended to be a covenant. God sees you, God loves you, and he wants to see you thrive, and he wants to see you draw closer to him.

Sarah-Gayle (20:26)

Well, we're so excited for what's to come for you. We know when God is a source and at the center, nothing is too difficult for Him. He is the Restorer, He's the Redeemer, and we are cheering you on.